Thank you for sharing this post!

I'm a recent transplant. I've wanted to live her for a very long time. My son is here and my friends from college are here. But, they've been here a while and I swear it has affected them too!

It hasn't been easy socially or professionally. But, socially it might be getting better. Not sure yet.

Professionally is another story. If they don't recognize a company's name they just dismiss it. These are big corporations.

I can't go home. Now what?

I moved to Seattle for the AmeriCorps program City Year, and half of the people in my program were also transplants. We were all discovering the city together, which helped ease the transition, but what we were doing - volunteering - helped as well. I would recommend volunteering to anyone who has the time; after City Year ended, it continued to be a great way for me to not only meet new people socially but also professionally.

One factor you didn't mention was the weather; it seems like that could play a role in keeping people isolated.

So true, all of it. I am a Seattle native who lived in several parts of the country before moving back to Seattle, and after being acclimated to how the rest of the country works, I had to move away again. For whatever reason -- weather, cultural influences, the high number of transplants -- Seattleites are anti-social and socially awkward. I found myself doing all of the work when it came to networking, forging friendships, etc. while living there -- and it was exhausting. Even now, my supposedly "closest" Seattle friends don't stay in touch with me (via email, phone, Facebook, etc.) as much as those I've met in other parts of the country. It's seriously one of the greatest disappointments of my life: I love my hometown, and I miss so much about it including my family, the geography, the fresh air ... but I just can't stand to live there myself because the people are so lame. Breaks my heart.

The representative exchange says it all.

Being a native I I find some of the above off the mark - mavericks, insecure and paranoid? Nah.

I do agree about being introverts and being busy; attributes common if not precusors to being well educated, highly paid, and highly engaged; this describes folks who work in software, law, finance, tech, and medicine (= comprises a good part of the Seattle demographic). Seattle is also extremely clique oriented, which is also common with an upper demographic.

We are also very liberal, which is to say we are incredibly judgemental to anyone outside the prescribed liberal doctrine - Ron Paul supporter? Church goer? Believe marriage = one man + one woman? Listen to country music? Ha, ha, good luck.

If you're some bloke fresh into town not in those job categories, aren't making $100k+, aren't a liberal, and aren't heavily into at least a couple of outdoor/recreational/social activities, yes, you're going to have a tough time getting ahead socially in the Seattle area. Three of those four are hard to change; one isn't. Get yourself into a couple of the 327 activities popular in the area - from sailing, to mountain biking, to skiing, to volunteering. Even then it will be still take some work.

SAL9000 & Others: Thanks for chiming in with your observations and thoughts about the "Seattle Freeze" phenomenon and the potential reasons for it. While I suppose we'll never know for sure why exactly the Seattle networking scene works this way, there seems no denying the reality of it, since I've actually received 10-20 additional messages from people directly confirming they've had a heck of a time making friends in town -- even after getting involved in lots of hobby groups and doing similar things to rub elbows with people. Guess all of us "locals" just need to be aware of this perception and try our best to be a little less introverted -- and a little more welcoming to folks who are new in town!

as a long moved and gone from seattle(mid 60's)- i found that when i have gone back for a visit the problem is no one is from there, you know born raised blah blah. they are from back east (omg) and california (well)

the real natives are all long gone and i must say we were a great bunch, fun open and so on

Seattle is the provincial capital of the American NW, settled by Scandinavian settlers.

Behavior described as "Seattlish" is applicable to Scandinavia. People there are independent, practical, and mind their own business. They are also described as "cold" by their neighbors.

Same with the provincial influence..feeling uncomfortable with outsiders. That is in common with provincial towns all over the world.

Socioeconomic status has nothing to do with it, from my experience. Only a true Seattlite would pull rank with Seattle socioeconomically...

Being Busy is part of a global trend everywhere, as people work more, and devoting leisure time to media is much easier than seeking out social interaction.

Seattleites are mean spirited, insecure, and generally just grumpy and irritable. ALL of us. This region is beautiful and it's horrible, all in the same stroke. Don't move here unless you like rain for 9 months a year, horrible traffic and mean-spirited people. Sorry but it's true. I've lived here 42 years. If I did not have grade-school children, I'd be gone before this sentence was finished.

This article is so perfect! As a true Seattle native (me, my parents, my grandparents were born and raised here), this is something I have heard many, many times.

I actually try to go out of my way to make people feel welcome & introduce them to the town in an effort to fight this problem. But it's hard. Probably 75% of the people I meet are new to the city. I meet at least 100 new people per month - that's 75 people to try to integrate into my social/professional scene, per month. Even if I just sponsor one person per month, that's 12 people per year.

I think the biggest problem is that there are too many newbies to Seattle and everyone feels like they're outsiders. There's a reason grunge music started here. We're all outsiders.

So new people here say it is hard to get friends.

Don't you think new people everywhere say that?

Was there a control?

Thanks for all the great ongoing feedback, folks. Your perspectives really add some extra perspective to this issue. As for the last person who commented, Brian, I suspect there likely hasn't been a definitive study done -- using scientific methods and control groups -- to prove that Seattle's a tougher place to network than anywhere else. And yet, I think the anecdotal evidence strongly suggests it's not just a case of "new people having trouble making friends" in a general sense. Personally, I've heard too many stories from people who have lived all over the country, and world, saying Seattle is uniquely challenging from a social standpoint. As to the reason for this? See above. Been some great theories and observations put forward by many people who read the article...

As a Seattle native -- born here, left for college, have lived here nearly 20 years since -- I have no doubt that this place is socially unkind. For a long time when I was younger, I thought the problem was me, but experience, maturity, and the countless stories of transplants helped me realize that the problem is in fact not me -- people here are cold and confusing, and exhaustingly so if you'd actually like to make human connections for any purpose.

I myself am an introvert, and that has nothing to do with it (plus, that would mean there's an absurdly large segment of the introvert populace brazenly masquerading as extroverts). If someone says, as above, that the issue is essentially socioeconomic, all they are saying is that people here are snobs. That is probably part of it, but not the whole.

There is just a culture here of casual disingenuousness. It is so pervasive that I do think 'culture' is an appropriate way to describe it. Once a transplant has lived here a while, it seems to rub off on them too -- casual disingenuousness becomes part of ordinary communication, like it's just the custom here: You say something nice or helpful-sounding, offer to do something for someone whether or not they asked, even extend an invitation, and then you just disappear/drop it/duck out. I have experienced this phenomenon regularly in a variety of contexts -- personal/professional/neighborly/etc. Even with people I have maintained friendships with. You pretty much just have to realize that, most of the time, people don't mean what they say here.

Yes, you'd think they wouldn't bother to invite you to begin with (or offer to forward your resume, knit you some gloves, introduce you to that lovely gal/guy they're so sure is perfect for you, etc.) since they have no intention of following through. That would save some confusion and disappointment. Maybe they think lip service is a suitable stand-in for being nice (because you won't notice when they don't follow through), or maybe lip service allows them to see themselves as friendly and generous people. I don't know. It's a type of heightened self-absorption. I do know that truly friendly and generous people really do follow up and are perfectly happy to do so. We don't have many of those in the greater Puget Sound area.

It is rough going, and can be endlessly frustrating. As another commenter noted, I love the geography here, the scenery and fresh air -- they're why I moved back after college -- but the people really make (or break) a place, and I'm about as tired of Seattleites as any right-minded transplant could be.

I moved to Seattle from 20 years on the Eastside (Bellevue, Redmond, Issy, etc). I'm 33. Being in Fremont, it feels like I got out of jail, yet I run into the same issues.

I was at a local restaurant recently and a book club was meeting there. I joined them, we talked about their book, discussed the next read and various authors. At the end, they up and left, no invite for me to join them.

Last year during the snow, a group of ~12 people were trying to sled down Phinney from 42nd. I, living on that corner, grabbed some cookie sheets and went and joined them. We had a blast for about 20 minutes. Then they said they were off to go get beer and make mac n cheese, said good night, and walked away. No invite for me.

On the Eastside and in Seattle, I've sent out party invites for various parties. It is really frustrating to send out invites, get confirmations for 6+ people and have NOBODY show.

The worst is dating. I've met soooo many women who, at some point in the date, admit they are married!!! About 7 of 10 dates. The worst was last week. A woman complained of only meeting married men whilst trying to date, I shared with her my troubles. We hit it off and enjoyed a little over 3 hours of laughing and fun. When it was time to getting going...she admitted, she was married.

Seattle Freeze....no, it's the Seattle $#*%-You. I LOVE living here for all that there is to offer (cycling, hiking, backpacking, sailing, the food and beer, the jobs!). Friendships is not one of them. A TV show like "Friends" would never happen in Seattle.

I've travel the world over and make long lasting friends with people I meet. Not sure what it doesn't happen at home.

Seattlites are PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE....be careful the malady doesn't creep up on you too!

You have seen this behavior in action. It is described above.

If you are lucky enough to meet a few real human beings here in Seattle that can communicate with trust, openness and are able to share actual feelings, it's a sure bet the majority did not grow up in this state.

It must be something in the water.

I've lived here for 30 years and I developed an analogy for the Seattle Freeze.

Being a newcomer to Seattle is akin to being a door to door salesman. You have to knock on a lot of doors. Most won't even answer the door. A few will open and then close, some quietly or loudly. On occasion someone will chat long enough that you have a chance to (almost literally) get your foot in the door. If you can keep them engaged you might eventually make a friend - but its a constant sell. THEN you might have an opportunity to be introduced to their friends, but its a constant sell sell sell to keep people engaged. Eventually you will make a circle of friends but it is a long haul. Once it's been accomplished its easier to retain that group than to add to it. I think thats also a part of the standoffishness.

I've had many a friend I've made from newly in town who has left with the same impression "You people are weird here"!

I just loved all these comments here. I like the terminology "casual disingenuousness". It reminds me of someone who described baseball player Dave Winfield's personality as "passive-aggressive". At least Seattle can lay claim to creating a new category of social behavior.

I am a transplant here now 30 years. I have never figured this out either but these comments I think explain some of it. I also think there are plenty of exceptions. To me, the redneck/logger/blue collar types have always been friendlier than the likes of the professional/scholar/white collar types. But again, no idea why.

There is something to be said for historical reasons which then become mindlessly passed on as "I had to suffer this, now you do too" mentality.

Perhaps as Emmett Watson created the Lessor Seattle Society, it is time to create the Great Seattle Thaw Society to try and break up the historical ice. Or at least have a few laughs over it.

I realized while reading these comments that I am extremely protective of my city. But, since spewing rudeness towards those that have had bad experiences won't help anything, I'll try to just add constructive comments.

My husband is from So. Cal so I've spent some time trying to explain the nuances of Seattle behavior while trying to adopt some SoCal behaviors we would like in our lives. I think the biggest confusions come because of different assumptions & behavior cues during interaction.

First, Seattleites really don't socialize very much. I have a few friends that socialize more than 3x per week. Most are at a once or twice per week level - and that includes getting together with extended family. I get together with my closest friends 1-2x every 2 months. So if you want a busy social life, it's important to have many, many different groups of friends.

Second, I think that, like a flirty woman, Seattleites can send the wrong signals. We are open and friendly with strangers. We will have a great, engaging conversation with someone we don't know. To someone who is new in town, this may appear to be a sign of a deeper connection. We are not trying to lead you on. We just consider it polite, friendly, and a part of every-day life.

I can try to explain Seattleites to you, but the truth is that you probably won't meet very many true Seattleites. If we include people that are from the suburbs AND people that transplanted here more than 20 years ago, they still probably won't make up the majority of the people you meet. So, why does Seattle have such a bad rap? I think it's because people move here and look for an established social scene or structure they can tap into. But, we are a new city and we don't have that.

That's it. After 25 years here and slowly, insidiously becoming a Seattle Freezer, I'm moving. Lynda Barry summed it up beautifully in a cartoon entitled "Seattle's Siren Song," in which a woman escapes the existential gloom of Seattle and--after years away--finally finds a happier life in Chicago, replacing triple espressos and Sylvia Plath with a game of twister with friends. "How can you be so shallow?" a Seattle acquaintance asks. "Just lucky, I guess," she replies.

wow...I am surprised I moved to Washington DC area from Seattle and would move back to Seattle in a heart beat if my other half was ready to leave DC for a change. I think people in Seattle are great, generally, but I admit that it is vastly different than it was when I moved there in the mid 80's (pre-Techmageddon). Still, in comparison to what I have seen in the DC, Maryland, Northern Virginia area, Seattle is miles ahead in every respect and the quality of life is much better there than it is in many places, rain aside. The cost of living in Seattle has also made it more challenging and that is a really sad part of the changes.

I'm totally with joe's comment. I was born here 40 years ago and I sincerely regret not taking the opportunity to relocate before I put down roots and have a child in primary school here.

Anti-social behavior and culture breeds more anti-social culture. After putting up with horrible neighbors and bad interactions with strangers, it's affected me to behave very defensively around people I don't know.

And only having 2 weeks of summer doesn't help people's general neurotic behavior. As humans, we aren't really meant to live in a climate that never sees the sky.

Like so many people in Seattle, I am a transplant. I have lived here for about 12 years, and I absolutely love it. I love the mountains, the forest, and the sea. Like a lot of people who work all of the time, I have rather little patience for social commitments – and that’s part of why I love this city. Where else can you be completely asocial, without anyone taking notice?
In other cities I constantly had to think of polite ways to back out of invitations. In Seattle, that’s one less thing to worry about.

In NJ you find people to be more social and aggressively engaging. You can argue politics, get loud, give someone a good natured ribbing, and feel connected to people who actively LIVE.

In WA people are very reserved, BUT they live much healthier lives and participate in much healthier activities. The air and water is cleaner.

So, if I have to choose between an active social scene that may result in an early death due to cancer and a long, quiet, healthy life in Seattle, I'll choose Seattle.

I really think a lot of you are Super. Give me call and we will get together.

sighs - after typing a very thoughtful answer once again the captcha didn't work and it erases what I wrote.

There are a couple of factors
1) Demographics - Seattle is 41% single and live alone. Redmond 1 in 4 is a first generation immigrant. Bellevue 30% are immigrants and more than half speak a language other then English at home (Chinese most common). The reason they don't give away their connections? They might not have any.

2) Almost no one is from here so the social networks that other communities have built up over generations are missing. It often seems like high school. The 200 kids all want to go to the 20 popular kids party. I have been at a table with 6 other people all complaining about not being able to find friends - um duh.. make friends with one another

3) Greedy Climbers - many many of the people I have met from outside Seattle want to know where the "BEST" of anything is. They cut us off in traffic, they push to the front of the line at community events (where they never volunteer) and they simply don't seem to grasp that you create community you don't consume it..

For example - Don't expect to win friends if you live in a new Mega Mansion when you go to a neighborhood meeting on sustainability. Many people dont share connections because we know you don't have any to give in returns and we care how hard you work NOT where you went to college or who you know back East.

The bottom line - nearly everyone who moves here is coming to "get" something and not because they want to contribute to the community. Once you start to give back you will find a warm, loyal, giving community.

I totally get feeling protective of your city. I have similar feelings in some regards. I happen to enjoy the weather here, and when people complain about the rain, I sometimes find myself pointing out that many other areas of the U.S. get a lot more rain than we do. When people who live here complain about the weather, I think, why don't you move somewhere else then where you'll be happier? More peace for the rest of us.

So I get it. That said, your thoughtful comments miss the point of what many here (and offline) are saying.

You say Seattleites don't socialize very much. By your own account, you see your closest friends 6+ times per year. I have this experience too, though not necessarily by my choice. This account simply reinforces what people are saying -- that yes, people here are antisocial. Some people really value friendship and connection; people who spare a few hours for a "close" friend every couple months are showing that they happen to value everything else in their lives more. This is part of what frustrated folks are responding to.

Second, what folks are really talking about -- at least what I am really talking about -- are not those jovial, casual chats with strangers at the grocery store, the coffee house, or the bus stop that make our days a little warmer. I am talking about people who are not strangers at all but persist in behaving as though we all should be.

Here are some real examples from my own life: the longtime neighbor you are friendly with from across the hall -- the two of you discuss taking care of each other's pets or plants while you're on your respective trips, but then when it's time to give her your key, you can't get ahold of her and she acts like it never happened; the former coworker you helped get a job somewhere else who says he has some ideas and leads for you but never follows through and acts like it never happened; the person you've had many animated, 30-minute conversation with, exchanged contact information with, discovered many common interests with, who says, "My partner and I have barbecues all the time in the summer. You should join us! I'll call you the next time we fire up the grill," and then you never see or hear from this person again; the friends you've had for several years now and been fairly close to who regularly says things like, "We're having seder at our house this year. We'd love for you to join us. I'll send you the details," and then act like it never happened (and you know that you either accept this odd behavior as a condition of knowing these people, or you drop them, 'cause that's just how they roll).

These behaviors are actually quite rude, and indeed they are bizarre by most standards. They can't be rationalized away.

Here is a real example I will leave you with that is funny, disturbing, and perfect: One night a couple years ago, I woke up to flashing lights on my ceiling and a whiff of acrid smoke. When I looked out the window, I saw fire trucks unloading and a few of my neighbors on the corner. That is how I found out that the fire was in my apartment building. Most residents were still inside. None of the people who'd gotten up and left had had the common courtesy (or sense of humanity) to pull the fire alarm or knock on any doors on their way out. When the fire was out, I said to the group, "Hey, if this ever happens again, how about we all bang on a couple doors and grab a neighbor on the way out?" A few people grunted "yeah" and looked at me like I was the crazy one.

Native Seattlites have a subtext. They are very nice and will be in person. Unlike the East Coast, where people act and say what they mean, Seattlites subvert what they feel into bland politeness. This takes a long while to figure out, and once you do, you just don't feel like playing anymore.
And then there is the weather.

The good old days. When each neighborhood had it's singular personality. When having a "freind" happened naturally and wasn't forced down your throat by a Southern Californian wanting to "do lunch" or "let's have drinks tonight, my patio!". You finally met kids from the other neighborhoods when you went away to college or went to work fishing in Alaska or logging in Forks or typing for an attorney downtown, and they would be friends for life along with the old neighborhood kids. You'd hang out with the people from work while at work, maybe go out for drinks afterwards, but then go home, spend the weekend doing chores or visiting mom. So anyway, II don't get all this frenetic "having friends" and "socializing" stuff. I have stuff of my own to do. Oh, and when I die, there will be plenty of neighbors, co-workers, and in my case, church members available to attend. Until then, just leave me alone!

Looks like votethebastardsout is your typical Seattlite:

II don't get all this frenetic "having friends" and "socializing" stuff.

I've been in Seattle for 10 years and the only rule of thumb I've come across is that if you are a Seattle native, you are not looking to make friends. Confirmed.

Perhaps it's on purpose, perhaps not, but people who live blocks away from their parents are never going to appreciate coming into their own as an adult. That's what most of the transplants here understand.

Pachinky, you’re one of the rare ones.  You too, bornonpillhill. Casual disingenuousness describes it perfectly. I agree with a lot of this article and it’s refreshing to see it again. I agree that Seattleites are insecure, competitive, and paranoid. And more than a little bit asexual. That makes it a pretty boring and lonely place, socially speaking. I blame Emmett Watson.

Maybe Georgia England represents Seattle: most people who move here want something. Yes, and you know what that is? A good quality life and human connections, same as anybody, even you. I’m not sure where your suspicion and insecurities spring from but don’t project onto others.

Seattleites are guarded, reserved, and passive-aggressive and I do not consider that nice. Socially awkward or not, decency requires that if you extend an invitation or an offer, you should follow through even if it’s a tiny bit inconvenient or uncomfortable. Self-absorption definitely rings true, too. I’m from so calif and moved up here in 1990. For the first year or two I thought it was me needing to learn the customs and adjust and then friendships would come, but I came to the realization that people up here have sticks up their you know whats and take themselves too seriously. My workplace credentials were also unappreciated here, by co-workers AND bosses, which is bizarre. But if your boss is a Seattle native, you can probably expect the same.

When two people pass each other on the street, to not acknowledge the other person, assuming they don’t appear threatening, is indeed rude. In opposite world here in Seattle, Seattleites believe that making eye contact and acknowledging another person’s existence is rude and that ignoring the and pretending you don’t see them is polite. If they do happen to speak to you, you’ll pretend you didn’t hear them; I see that ALL the time. That’s unhealthy and it’s also sad and makes for a lot of lonely people, especially if you’re single. Btw, I don’t date natives; not the least bit interested anymore.

As one commenter mentioned, why would a newcomer need a “sponsor”? Seattle is nice but it ain’t all that. I mean, travel 10-20 miles outside of Seattle in any direction and there are some pretty strange communities. Unsophisticated is the nicest way I can describe Marysville, Everett, Bremerton, Enumclaw, or Auburn.

As impolitic as this sounds, my theory and belief is that waspy white women are to blame for the unfriendliness. They tend to be cliquish, competitive, phony, humorless, and super uptight, which I assume is borne of insecurity and paranoia. I’ve been here 21+ years, and I’ve observed that men tend to be a bit friendlier but are often timid and skittish, as if smiling at a woman is an insult to her. Some native men appear lacking in drive and testosterone and that, too, makes it difficult to date. I’ve seen men looking at me and when I meet their gaze or smile, they look uncomfortable. At times it’s a little pathetic. I think women here have beaten the men down. Women usually do direct the social behavior and a society and men usually go along and don’t rock the boat, and since there are so many ball-busters here, a dynamic develops that is pervasive: We will not let strangers in. They might be interesting.

Women have perfected the art of looking through you as if they don’t see you and so don’t have to acknowledge you, and if you speak first they pretend not to hear you. If I do step out of line and smile at a woman (which I do for fun just to make them uncomfortable), they’ll usually look away or continue to look through me as if they didn’t see the smile. Again, insecurity seems the obvious reason, and unfortunately it feeds on itself. The more people are standoffish and dismissive, the more other people pick up on that and adopt it. I would think that a little education in the humanities, a sense of humor, and maybe a cocktail would go a long way to lightening people up and easing the insecurities.

In addition to the standoffishness and phoniness of most natives is the crappy attitude of servers, hair stylists or others in professions that wait on or serve customers. I believe these employees engage in preemptive snubbing because their insecurities and lack of common sense have convinced them that the customer who walks in the door believes they’re better than the servers, and so said server is going to snub you first and act like they’re too cool to care. “Too cool to care” is how I characterize Seattleites who work with the public. I don’t want anyone to fawn over me; on the contrary, but politeness goes a long way, and if you depend on tips, I would suggest you learn to pretend you care. If you hate your job, find another one because I don’t want to be brought down because you are unhappy in your work. Further, if you’re rude to me, you will earn exactly zero in tops because I don’t pay to be mistreated. Nor do I mistreat anybody.

Yeah, I wish Seattleites would learn to say what they really mean. Believe me, we’d have a lot more interesting conversations instead of the superficial polite but meaningless exchanges that are so often passed off as conversations.

Let’s start a club. Somebody start that Facebook. Transplants in Seattle.

Thank you for your reply. This is cultural, and it is pervasive. I agree 100% with your assessment and will add that it is also why the driving habits are so poor. (one didn't need to know too much about driving, when the 4 way stop only involved tractors and catching up on the latest gossip) Culture takes generations to change, we're only 2 from the original Scandanavians from Minnesota and South Dakota that came here. Give it time. Be the change.

So kind of you to visit and leave a pile of bad attitude. I'm sorry I even read all of your comments and tried to understand. I'm sure you are all correct and well-meaning. Now I feel like going down to the basement and never coming out again. But then that's probably just me and my poor cultural heritage and psychopathology. My "disingenuousness". When will I ever learn that indeed, it IS all about you.

I'm sorry I brought you down, that wasn't my intention. I tried to gently and nonangrily unload my opinions and complaints that I've had on this topic for almost 20 years, but i found it impossible not to let the anger creep in, and it IS an attitude thing and others here have written about it, and that's what I'm complaining about: Seattle natives' attitude, and yours now too, which is in essence disingenuousness, passive-aggressiveness, and self-absorption. The snarky p-a that you wrote is a wonderful example. I'm not complaining about you unless you're one of those types, and maybe you are. It would appear.

It is a cultural thing. San Fran and So calif are very racially diverse and believe it or not, even women smile or greet each other. Not every one! but enough to make a difference, enough to feel like we're sharing the same community space. Here -- again, mostly women -- create an unwelcoming, unfriendly environment. The question for you is why. I'm assuming you're a woman...

I note you wrote I'm "visiting and leaving a bad attitude" as if this space is yours and i'm an interloper. Is this *your* newspaper? Would, that you could read an LA Times once in a while ha. The us-versus-them attitude is boring. Ironically, transplants have made this place way more interesting -- yes, I said it and i believe it.

It's hard to hear straight talk and bluntness, isn't it? That's how we roll in NY and LA.

But as I reread my comments -- I should not dash stuff off -- I see I was unnecessarily harsh and unfriendly myself, so I'm sorry about that. If i could edit or delete my comments i would. And i'm not being p-a myself, altho it looks like it. I think it's more a case of I, myself, showing an appalling lack of a sense of humor, and some pique.

I'd like it if somebody would make a documentary on this subject -- Matt Youngquist? -- so we could get it out in the open and discuss it and have fun with it and come to an understanding and become just a cool, relaxed city b/c we have so much to be grateful for here.

Seattle Voter & Others: Wow, thank you all for sharing your perspectives on this issue! Out of all the articles I've written over the past year, this one definitely is the "thread that won't die" and the piece that seems to have resonated with people most strongly. Not sure if I can add any brilliant observations on the topic that haven't already been discussed, given the extremely broad spectrum of opinions that have been posted here, but in general I think it's a safe conclusion that a) this phenomonon exists and b) people who choose to live/work in Seattle will have to adapt to it, to a certain extent, if they want to get ahead.

As for the long-term outlook and what we can do as a community to address this issue? As you mentioned, Seattle Voter, it's definitely ripe for a book or documentary of some kind. Or perhaps some ambitious "welcome wagon" organization will form to help people integrate more smoothly into the local community. In the meantime, however, I think all we can do as individuals is be conscious of this perception, as proud members of our community, and try not to reinforce the "negative" aspects of the stereotype when we can help it.

Again, thanks to everybody for chiming in...

Matt, just hearing you and others agree and share the belief that the freeze exists helps ease the pain. Awareness is the first step, and if we are aware and care about having and contributing to a humane and loving society, this is an important step.

I do think the FB or another blog page is a good idea, i'm glad you agree :) I don't have time to develop or organize one but I sure would enjoy it, and I hope it catches fire.

I'll quibble with one thing you said. I would rather change the culture and the phenomenon rather than adapt to it. If it's not healthy, then it should go. Thanks for the discussion.

Like most low pressure systems, Seattle sucks... but it's also not much different than other parts of the country I've experienced -- Seattleittes are similar in nature to people from the South... just not as clannish about it, and they won't call you a Yankee.

The reason people are so busy here is to ward off the depression, caused by 9 months of crappy weather that occurs between November and July of each year -- have to take advantage of three months of nice weather to get all of the activities in.

The most depressing thing about Seattle is how non-committal people are... and even if you do manage to get them to commit, they'll blow off the commitment if there's something more fun to do and the weather is nice... so any networking would just gets in the way that.

Which brings me back to my initial point... people in Seattle are depressed about their lives -- Seattle's sucked it right out of them.

Yep. Noncommittal and scared. Scared to dream big. Ever notice when the Mariners or Seahawks win that even the sportscasters are verbally and outwardly waiting for the other shoe to drop. Way to support the team! The teams must be rather demoralized by that attitude, even subconsciously. Wait to suck the life and enthusiasm out.

I don't blame the weather, though. I think that's a cop out. If you read above you know who I blame... *wink*

Speaking of which, this morning, driving to work I pulled alongside a woman on a Vulcan motorcycle, a bike I particularly like, and i always like seeing cute chicks on bikes. So I pulled up next to her and smiled and tipped my head and got zero response back. She looked at me but didn't respond. Shocking. I found myself thinking, Of course, I forgot where I was for a moment! Oh, well. A smile is never wasted. If you're the woman on the Vulcan on 15th Ave heading south, whatever.

I find this post and the comment/discussion really fascinating. I'm more than a bit of a cultural anthropologist and sociologist myself, so this kind of discussion is exactly the kind of thing to which I need to be exposed right now.

My wife lived in Seattle for well over a decade and now wants to return. I've never lived in the area.

I'm very introverted but have no WASP in me at all. I tend to meet friends though work rather than social-only contexts. (and right now I have no idea if I will be able to find work in Seattle, though my wife sees it as a very employment-rich environment for herself.) I'm extremely honest and I get very irritated by people making promises that they don't follow through on or otherwise saying one thing and doing another.

Reading the theories and comments, I still don't yet get what the Seattle Freeze actually is. How much of it is dishonesty (people not meaning what they say) and how much of it is reserve? I'm very careful about who I get close to or even spend social time with, so reserve would probably resonate with me - but dishonest communication most certainly would not.

I also appreciate Georgia England's comment about people moving to Seattle to get something and the need to give as well. I'm not sure how I feel about community these days (I have a long history of community orientation and have been questioning myself about it in recent years) - but reciprocity is a huge deal to me and that comment will stay with me as something to keep in mind.

I'm going to show this post and the comments to my wife and see what she has to say. I feel like there are connections between some of what's here, and things she's said to me about Seattle, but I'm not yet sure what those connections actually are. I'll post again if our discussion yields anything potentially useful to the dialogue.

No matter what, I really appreciate the post and all of the comments. I do experience and see things in terms of cultural dynamics and I've been wanting to get a better sense of Seattle-area culture ever since we started talking about moving to the area.

Hello Seattle Voter,

Thank you for responding to my post.

Part of the reason I responded was because everything people wrote was true -- there is a common thread in all of the comments (the "Married Daters" -- both men and women are a classic -- which proves my point about how utterly depressed most people are here... thanks Marsmen!), but there isn't one thing in particular that a person could point at that is "THE ONE THING" that contributes to the phenomena known as the "Seattle Freeze" (actually, reading this article was the first time I had ever heard of it referred to in this way)... I also enjoyed reading your comments, and was not surprised when some overly-sensitive left-wing radical liberal responded to your post with hurt feelings -- it really made me laugh... and then I laughed even harder when the afore-described "Another Seattle Native" succeeded in laying the guilt trip on you so thick, that you felt it necessary to apologize for hurting "Der pooh widdle feewings", in my best Tweedie Bird voice imitation... so typical of Seattleites -- Free Thought and Free Speech are okay, as long as they are the ones that get to decide what is "PC", or okay to think or discuss. It's amazing how intolerant people are here. Like

For the record, I grew up in the Seattle area, as my parents moved here when I was 6 mos. old, so close enough for me to consider myself a native. In my 40th year of life, I was laid-off from that large aerospace firm in the Northwest, and moved to the East Coast to take a job. When I went to college here, I had a Chemistry professor that was Norwegian, and he told me he had worked all over the world, and that Seattle was the best place in the world I would ever find to live. Hearing this from him (someone I admire and respect) was enough to convince me that he was right... until I actually moved away from here.

I realize we have had exceptional summer weather in 2012 (quite outside the norm of the past several years) Do you know that great orb in the sky, the Sun? Well, the weather was so fantastic living on the Atlantic Seaboard I couldn't believe a place like this existed! And having nearly every day a sunny day was so therapeutic, it actually cleared up some bothersome, but not debilitating ailments that I had. Rarely a cloudy day... but when it rained -- OMG! I've never seen it rain so hard in my life... when it's a torrential downpour, everyone has to pull off the highway and wait the storm out, because it's raining so hard you can't see where you're going.

The people there were cordial, but like Seattleites, were very standoffish -- if you weren't born there, they didn't want to get to know you.

So anyway, I moved back to the area several years ago, due many business closures and relocations on the East Coast... I worked up and down the East Coast, and my personal experience was New Yorkers were some of the nicest and friendliest people I ever met! You could go into a place where you didn't know anyone, and they would actually strike up a conversation with you... unbelievable! New Yorkers get a bad rap for one reason: they don't take any BS off of anyone, and they have the best bullshit detectors of anyone I've ever met. So because they are direct and get to the point, they get a bad rap and are labeled as rude, etc.

And the South on the other hand... hoo-boy! Talk about pretentious and clannish, and if you’re not a Southerner, they don't want to have anything to do with you (I don't consider Atlanta the South -- it's too international and Metropolitan)... so in many ways, Southerners remind me of Seattleites, except for Seattleites aren't clannish -- they just don't want to know you, because that might just mean they will feel obligated to pay back a favor down the road... and they don't want to be made to feel obligated.

I for one agree it's better to bring it out and discuss it, rather than ignore the phenomenon, like the elephant in the living room doesn't exist... like Matt said, "... I think all we can do as individuals is be conscious of this perception, as proud members of our community, and try not to reinforce the "negative" aspects of the stereotype when we can help it."

And I also agreed with what you said, "...I would rather change the culture and the phenomenon rather than adapt to it. If it's not healthy, then it should go.”
Thank You too, for the discussion.

Thank you for understanding New Yorkers :) :)

You mentioned one thing and I think I can point to one thing: People passing each other on the street, ppl in a similar demographic (you recognize each other when you see 'em) and nobody makes eye contact. Even a man and woman of a similar age doesn't, maybe especially opposite-sex encounters. I'm not sure if the elderly are like that too. There's also the ignoring of a stranger talking to you like you didn't hear, but you're right, there's no one thing because it's a bunch of behaviors and mores that make up a culture.

I thought of another. I'm a mother and my son is 24 (Im 45, fit, in shape) and I like kids esp not mine, and more often than not, if I smile at a mother with a cute baby or make a comment, she doesn't respond. I've walked away from a couple of encounters feeling sad because I'm a mother and I remember those days, but maybe if you're uptight, you're probably more uptight when you have a baby. But it's sad that women don't seem to want to share those experiences with other women. Here, I think insecurity comes into play especially.

When I was in Tuskegee visiting my son's family, I found southerns exceedingly friendly but probably in a nosy way, but I enjoyed it. It's better than being ignored.

I hope this conversation does get discussed, even goes viral, b/c it's been important to me for decades, really, and let's wake each other up. All that said, I'm glad I raised my son here, I think it's one of the best cities in the world for kids, but again, as a single person, it's lonely. That's probably partly my fault b/c I'm friendly but I have my shy moments, lots of them, especially after being ignored lo, these many times. You can't beat the hiking here, that's for sure.

To add to what I wrote above, after discussing this article and the comments with my wife:

(but keep in mind that I am saying all of this stuff from afar, and from conversation with someone very close to me who lived in Seattle for a long time, so it's limited in that way. I may change my mind later.)

I'm now questioning whether the core of the culture described here is actually a problem to be solved.

I'm an introvert and it seems to me from my discussion last night that I would actually fit pretty well with major parts of this culture, despite having zero WASP/Scandinavian in my cultural heritage (I'm a Jew raised on the East Coast who has lived on the West Coast and Southwest for all of my adult life, with the exception of one very painful stint in the Southeast).

To be more concrete about what I'm now thinking, take the conversation in the original article;

Seattleite: "So, what are you up to this weekend?"
New Arrival: "I don't have any plans yet. I just moved to Seattle and don't really know anybody."
Seattleite: "Well, have a nice weekend, then!"

I put myself in the place of both of the speakers, and realized:

1. I don't think the Seattleite in that scenario is doing anything wrong. The initial question is just a casual friendly limited (bounded) communication. And if I were in her/his shoes, I would not choose to hang out with someone just because the person is new in town and has no weekend plans. It takes energy for me to be around people in social situations, and my social connections have to be carefully chosen or I will get drained. I would feel very uncomfortable asking someone to spend time with me socially just because they don't have any other weekend plans and are new. Such an expectation creeps me out, actually, because it asks me to do something that could drain my energy in unpleasant ways based solely on the other person's loneliness and life circumstances. What kind of possible friend would ask such a thing of me?

2. I would never respond like that new arrival in the scenario. Seems like that person is trying in an indirect way to get invited to something, instead of just answering the question that was asked. I find that manipulative and kind of clingy, and I would not do it.

On the flip side, if the new arrival is simply answering the question and isn't seeking to push implicit expectations about what the Seattleite should do , then they should have no problem with the answer. Question asked and answered, everything aboveboard, information and pleasantries exchanged and it's all good IMO.

I'm only addressing one piece of the cultural layout, and have more complex thoughts about some of the other stuff, but this feels to me like part of the core.

People iike "Seattle voter" are the reason I'm (as they would call it) anti-social: the incredible sense of entitlement to the time and energy of others, without ever actually earning it, or offering something genuine and fulfilling in return.

I think the very premise of this piece and some of the responses herein are emblematic of the root problem: The very idea of "networking" is utterly gross and cynical. The concept of using social contacts with other people primarily to get a job or a date or for some other selfish purpose is appalling. People are not just means to an end, and if that's what you're expecting from the social connections you make, don't be surprised if you get rebuffed.

This is the biggest problem most of us have with transplants from the urban NE or SoCal. There, using other people is considered normal, because everyone's trying to career-climb. So, they bring those expectations with them when they come here, and when we aren't willing to be used like that, they get all huffy, like a spoiled child who's grown used to getting what they want from everyone around them. Virtually all of us natives or long-termers have been used like that at some point by one of these sorts, so we're now extremely wary of total strangers who approach us with a saccharine smile and a suggestion that we do lunch. No one wants to be objectified, and when someone who knows nothing whatsoever about you suddenly pours on the charm, that's exactly what's happening. Sue us if we're not interested in taking that bait.

Our problem with transplants from the South and Midwest is a little different. Folks from there tend to bring their horrific social conservatism with them, and we want nothing to do with that. Virtually everyone here, if we're not GLBT ourselves, know and care about someone who is. If you'd vote against their rights, then we want nothing to do with you. Folks who don't put their votes where their Southern Charm is aren't going to be welcomed here with open arms.

Really, the problem with both groups comes down to the same thing, though: seeing other people not as humans deserving of genuine care and respect, but merely a means to an end: getting a job, getting laid, or getting more converts for their religion. If what you want from social interactions with people is something shallow like that, then no, you're not going to get it here.

In other words: we NWers aren't anti-social at all. In fact, the opposite is true. We prefer our social interactions to be because we genuinely like and care about each other. We may not have tons of "friends," no, but the friendships we do have are far more real and emotionally fulfilling than can ever happen immediately after meaningless small talk in line at Starbucks. Chatting someone up like that is a great way to brand yourself as someone who doesn't understand what real friendship is, so of course we're going to ignore you.

I agree that extending invitations that aren't followed up on, or not RSVPing for parties, etc. is rude, and I do wish folks here would stop doing that sort of thing. But refusing to chitchat with utter strangers who more than likely have ulterior motives is not rude. Life is simply too short and busy to waste any of it on shallow social interactions that likely won't ever develop into genuine friendships. I, for one, am always open to making new friendships, but only with people who want real ones. Until I've known you long enough to know that's what you actually want from me, I'm not going to waste my time on you.

Tiria's comment is really wonderfully accurate as far as I can tell so far. Great analysis and description.

So I've been in Seattle only a couple of weeks and I'm blown away (in a good way) by the genuine thoughtfulness of the people here. Of course, I'm avoiding contexts where people do use each other, and I understand that there are some here. But I haven't interacted with them and hope I can avoid them as much as possible.

Best I can describe it is that there's a lack of "edge" - meaning what I would call a competitive edge, that thing I've experienced everywhere else I've lived in which it is culturally normal for people use each other, treat each other like objects, be shallow, etc. Being here is already enjoyably challenging me to see my own veneer of self-protection for the burden (and seeming survival necessity) that it has been in other places.

Obviously I'm still quite new. But I have to say, Tiria's comment really resonates with my experiences and understandings so far. I think what's happening in this discussion and related ones has a lot to do with a clash of deep cultural assumptions about how human interaction. I have to say, I didn't think a dynamic like the one here could actually exist in a country in which the other way of doing things is so much the norm.

So far, my very favorite thing about Seattle is the people and how they interact.

It appears that Seattle is indeed a city of introverts.

And a lot of people here seem to possess the entitlement of a spoiled child.

Too many have become wrapped up in the high-tech online virtual world and "live" there (FB, email/texting, gaming, Twitter, Pinterest, Reddit, etc.)

The disparate economic groups makes it harder to connect. If you have a beat-up bike or stroller, you may not be up to snuff. Or, if you have a high-end bike or stroller, maybe you're considered to be a snob..

If you live/move here and you're young and childless, it's a completely different world. Once you have kids, your opportunities are more limited, and defined by the age group of your children and luck, to some extent. Your world gets smaller.

Obviously the weather plays a part. However, while dreary weather depletes our zest for life, I've lived in cold towns (Portland, ME, Boulder, upstate NY) where the cold is a challenge to be faced and encourages community (everyone is out shoveling, sledding, or at bars playing darts, etc.)

It can be overwhelming when there are so many choices of things to do. Sometimes you invite people you know but don't end up going yourself. We have a lot of intention, but not a lot of follow-through.

Not having money means you can't do as much or join those for whom money is no object. This is a big money town, with a lot of peripheral poverty. The outlying towns are not thriving like the Eastside.

So many here suffer from SAD/depression/anxiety, which affect their ability to socialize.

Health is a big deal. Some are turned off if you smoke or are overweight, while others are annoyed if you are narcissistic about your body.

There is a LOT of judgment and exclusivity. You really see this amongst the parents. One parent looks down on you if your kids watch TV or eat junk food. Other parents look down on you if you only have one kid, or have kids late in life. Many parents look down on you if you can't afford private schools.

It's a town full of nerds/socially awkward persons. That's just the truth. Engineers, developers, etc. Boeing, Amazon, Microsoft, Starbucks.

Which brings me to the Goldmine Theory. If you have a good idea or are working on a startup or have a good job, you're less likely to share it. Especially if you think someone else is going to cash in on your personal goldmine. It makes people withdrawn and self-absorbed.

Status causes exclusion: money, connections, toys, skills/experience, etc.

Many here can be superficial. It's a West Coast thing in general.

Smaller families and people here living far away from extended families also add to the lack of community here.

People here are less religious and more cerebral. They read more and pitch in less. Again, that takes away from the feel of community.

There is a shocking lack of customer service in the area which reflects the attitute of the youth here. It's very "figure it out yourself, but tip me a lot anyway."

The core of the area is not crowded enough. City areas like Manhattan, where people live and work in the same locations, bustle and bubble with life and energy. We're a group of bedroom communities and sleepy villages. Even our hopping areas, like Belltown, Bellevue and Ballard are kind of Boring.

Everything closes early. I feel like an Amish person on Sundays here.

Yep, as others have pointed out in the previous article, many here appear "too cool to care". Hipster nonsense, as Liz Lemon would say.

East coast/West coast collide here, as many are transplants. East coasters are more gregarious and want to include you, but are confrontational and loud, which turns off a lot of the quieter, less forward West coasters here.

International cities like Seattle tend to work better if the areas are compact. Here, you find a very desolate "Chinatown", very separated ghettos (Georgetown, White Center and Central Seattle) and a mixed yet divided culturaly zone (Eastside), where tranplants and temporarily displaced groups find each other and cling to their cultures.

The answers lie in forging ahead no matter the obstacles, but taking them into consideration to avoid being insulted or discouraged.

Some of the best ways to overcome these issues is to:

1) Join meetup groups or create new ones.

2) Use technology wisely (ask for emails/cell numbers more aggressively and follow up).

3) Be creative and create events people would really be drawn to ("Hey, I'm having a "Your Favorite Comfort Food" potluck at my place where we'll be playing retro games like Trivial Pursuit and Monopoly this Friday.) See? Don't you want to attend?

And then use Evites or Punchbowls, but follow up PERSONALLY.

4) It's a numbers game. Keep at it until you find success.

5) Don't be shy. Jump into conversations. Offer to help/network/volunteer. Smile. Ask questions. Be flexible.

6) Your attitude and energy matter as much as your appearance and social graces. You can have messy hair and wear kooky clothes, but if you are nice and generate a good vibe, you'll be far more popular.

7) We are a group of misfit toys out here in the PNW. So, keep that in mind. The more you work on being inclusive, kind, supportive and open-minded, the better your social life will be.

8) Try to discuss politics, religion and other touchy subjects in a way that conveys your desire to LEARN about the other person WITHOUT JUDGMENT. Even the least sophisticated or most bull-headed people have something to bring to the table and may surprise you. Don't assume anything about people. But that doesn't mean you can't be dicsriminating and honor your intuition if a person rubs you the wrong way.

9) Be wary of neighbors. Because most of us are introverts/work a lot/spend a lot of time online, your neighbors may avoid you more than you can understand. It's a lot better to be cordial to neighbors and supportive when necessary (storms, births/deaths, yard/car trouble, etc.) than to try to make best friends. Most of us live close to neighbors and don't want to share our personal space or private matters.

10) Make your intentions clear. Some are wary of those who may be flirting or selling something, while others may be too eager to convert you to their cause or hobby. Relax. Read body signals, listen to the person and their tone of voice and pay attention to your own. An open invitation may not be followed up on if you are uncomfortable.

But above all, TAKE CHANCES. Be smart though, focus on fun and be nice.